Category Roadmap:Neuros III

From The Neuros Technology Wiki

Note: The Neuros III is currently under development. The information on this page can and will be outdated, inaccurate, or completely fallacious at this point. Please be patient as Neuros Technology works with the community to create the ultimate portable audio player.

Contents 1 Links 1.1 Misc Thoughts about the N3 1.2 DM320 Product Chart Comparison 2 At a glance 2.1 Purpose: 2.2 Vision: 2.3 What's it for: 2.4 Who's it for: 2.5 What is it not? 2.6 The good: 2.7 The bad: 2.8 The price: 3 Basic Specs 3.1 Features 3.2 Hardware 3.2.1 Ports 3.3 Codecs 3.4 Optional Accessories 3.5 Under Consideration 3.5.1 Display 3.5.2 Battery 3.5.3 Mic or Line In 3.5.4 S/PDIF In 3.5.5 Bluetooth 3.6 Line Out 4 Under the Hood 4.1 General 4.2 Firmware 4.3 PC Software 4.4 Audio Quality

[edit] Links

[edit] Misc Thoughts about the N3

[edit] DM320 Product Chart Comparison

[edit] At a glance

[edit] Purpose:

Neuros Audio is designing the N3 to fill the needs of the audio enthusiast and the music professional in a portable digital audio device. High quality components, a fast DSP, Linux support, and a wealth of audio interfaces will ensure that the Neuros III will have the versatility to handle most portable music needs. However, a focus on the consumer will make for a reliable and easy-to-use music player perfect for anyone looking for a little more control over their music.

[edit] Vision:

Builds on the vision for the Neuros I & II but improving in important areas to better realize the vision for a digital audio computer.

For example, lots of folks want better functioning database browsing with customizable XI menus, etc. Then there are games and PDA functions galore. With a 200MHz ARM9 and a much faster DSP than previous generations, there's enough horsepower to implement all these new features, and many more that you can think of.

[edit] What's it for:

Listening to your music library on the go; recording with quality and portability; and a tremendous amount more in the future.

[edit] Who's it for:

Audio enthusiasts who want more functionality and customizability from their music player; music professionals who need to create and play back on the go; anybody who appreciates good sound.

[edit] What is it not?

Trying to do too many things is always a formula for disaster so it's worth noting some things that the Neuros 3 is not

it's not a replacement for a professional digital recording device, there are already a large number of products that serve this market well:

from Head-fi forums: there are already some high-end types from edirol, marantz, and m-audio.

http://www.edirol.com/products/info/r1.html (note, this thing is not comparable, it records to CF only and is extremely proprietary and buggy)

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html (also not comparable, records to CF only, and has a permanent internal lithium ion battery like an Ipod).

http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=3507 (humongous CD recorder)

http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/index.php (lol.. not so portable)

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm (this is what you really want, starting at a mere $2500 or so).

[edit] The good:

• FM broadcasting with NeuroCast. Think along the lines of the Griffin iTrip, then make it easier to use, more reliable, higher quality, and integrated.
• Removable battery. A failed battery can be replaced cheaply and with no tools involved. You can also swap to a freshly-charged battery if you run out of power on the go for twice the listening pleasure.
• Microphone inputs. This player can easily be used to record concerts, garage bands, lectures, nature... whatever. May or may not require amplified mics.
• Audiophile-quality signal path. Though no specifics are available at this stage in development, Neuros Audio is designing the Neuros III to set the bar for portable audio quality.
• Open development process. This means that the Neuros community is in control of the player platform. NA relies on the Neuros community through its unique Gamma program to get the feedback of real people using the product in real life, so it can design the final product to meet the needs (and wants!) of the consumer.
• Open, Linux-based firmware. By making the firmware source available to everyone, Neuros Audio has given the chance for everyone in the community to tweak the player experience to their exact preferences, and by utilizing an embedded Linux O/S, it has guaranteed a simple, stable development platform that hundreds of thousands of geeks around the world will feel right at home with.
• Industry-standard S/PDIF digital interface. Digital technology ensures pristine audio quality, while the standards-compliant connection allows you to use the Neuros with virtually all audiophile-grade professional digital recording equipment seamlessly (and professional a-d's IF it has an spdif input as well as output, which is apparently not yet decided. Go for it, Neuros!)

[edit] The bad:

• Compared to the Apple iPod, the Neuros III will be slightly larger, and have fewer accessories. This is understandable, considering the number of features available standard with the Neuros III that must be purchased seperately with the iPod (FM broadcasting, line-in recording, mic recording, etc.).
• The "backpack" technology used in the previous generations of the Neuros will not be available in this model. A trade-in program is under consideration, but no decision is available on this.

[edit] The price:

The Neuros III is still under heavy development. At this stage, pricing and specific release dates are not available. However, since the Neuros III will share the same hardware platform as the as-yet-unnamed successor to the 442, it will be released some time after the new 442's projected release date in Q1 2006. As the Neuros III gets closer to final production, we'll be able to pin down the date more precisely.

[edit] Basic Specs

• Product type -- One-piece USB 2.0 HD (as opposed to the "backpack" concept)
• Storage 1.8" 20 GB, 40GB & 60GB Hard Disk drive
• Supported Formats -- WAV, MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis, Audible, and more
• Dimensions -- Expected to be slightly larger than the size of a fourth-generation iPod
• Outputs -- Headphone and S/PDIF digital audio out
• Inputs -- Microphone
• Battery -- See below.
• Battery Life -- Around 12 hours (manufacturer's estimate)
• Display -- See below.
• Included Accessories -- Belt Clip, Arm Band, Binaural Earbud Headphones (not white!)
• Cable(s) included -- USB cable

[edit] Features

• Radio services:
  • NeuroCast lets you broadcast your music wirelessly to any FM radio (RDS+ support for displaying song metadata TBD)
    • Linkit lets you broadcast other devices through the line-in port
    • Ncast w/ headphones will let other people listen without you needing a radio of your own
  • Personal Radio Recorder functions let you schedule recording your favorite shows and pause and rewind live radio (outboard accessory required)
• Digital graphic equalizer gives you control over how your music sounds
• Linux firmware and software means it's easier to get your favorite feature implemented
• Removable battery enables swapping on-the-go, letting you carry extra power for more runtime
• Audiophile-quality digital-to-analog converter ensures a top-notch sonic experience

[edit] Hardware

• USB device and host (host will serve as universal bus to connect other external peripherals)
  • USB Charging Discussion
• High quality internal DAC/ADC (see below)
• S/PDIF output (input also?)
• Built in Microphone
  • Isolation to reduce noise from HD spinup

[edit] Ports

• Full size USB Host Female Connector- (This is becoming unlikely given recent USB OTG discussions where a single mini USB plug will act as both host and device. It would require a dongle to connect standard accessories, but probably a worthwhile tradeoff considering the size savings.

[edit] Codecs

• Ogg Vorbis
• MP3
• WMA
• Audible?
• FLAC?
• Musepack?

[edit] Optional Accessories

• AM/FM Radio
• Inline remote

[edit] Under Consideration

The following issues are still under heavy discussion. As part of Neuros Technology's continued commitment to openness and customer satisfaction, the details of these debates are very public, so that those who have an opinion can weigh in. Feel strongly about any of these issues? Join in the discussion!

[edit] Display

People have weighed in opinions in favor of screens from tiny 1" monochrome displays, all the way to a 2.5" vibrant color transflective LCD. Even OLEDs were suggested at one time. At the moment, no decision has been reached; there's a stalemate between the "it's an audio player, dangit; the screen shouldn't matter" and the "consumers expect color nowadays" camps.

The biggest factor in favor of the former is the size and battery life requirements: as it is now, the raw horsepower and sound hardware in the DM320 platform requires a great deal of power, and the wisdom of a massive screen is questionable in this context. On the other hand, the DM320 (referring to the core processor and the DSP) is fully capable of doing real-time video decoding, as it is the same chip used in the 442-320, so virtually no effort is required to get nice-looking videos on the Neuros III. Those who favor the better-quality screen cite this ability as an excellent motivator for consumer purchase, regardless of how often the feature will actually be used.

[edit] Battery

A brief summary of the proposals, in approximate order of number of people in favor of it:

Cell phone battery: Custom-made lithium-ion batteries have more capacity in a smaller weight and volume than any other viable option. However, they are expensive and proprietary, two things Neuros Technology's product lines are not. A compromise has been floating around for a while: simply use a popular cell phone battery. The reasoning behind this decision: you get the capacity of the battery, but you can pick up a spare one at your local electronics retailer and/or cellphone outfitter. There are a few complications... someone else want to list 'em? One downside might be that cell phone models change rather rapidly, and that battery types often change with the model.

Digital Camera battery: A large number of digital cameras also use Li-Ion batteries, and for popular models replacements from third party vendors are also available, in addition to chargers. High-end digital cameras like DSLRs also have much longer product cycles than cell phones, ensuring battery availability for years to come.

Camcorder battery: similar considerations to digital camera battery

AAs, or the like: They're cheap, they're versatile, they're user-servicable, they're ubiquitous. They're also bulky, heavy, and will drain much too fast for most users' liking.

These would likely end up being Rechargeable NiMH AA batteries.

Custom-made Li-ion battery: See three items above.

Beyond simply discussing the type of power source, some other ideas have been put forth. An incomplete list follows:

• Dual batteries. This will allow for hot-swapping and extended battery life. However, the extra size requirement that would be incurred on every unit is a big deterrent to those who don't need 36 hours of contiguous music. A possible compromise is to make sure that an external power source can be connected and disconnected without interrupting operation. That means you can plug in an external power pack (even a tiny battery pack that can't run the unit for very long), change the internal battery while operating on external power, the unplug the external pack.

• An external AA battery pack. The pros are simple: extended battery life and the ability to use a standard power source to recharge or supplement the main battery when on the road, in the air, or anywhere else a power outlet isn't accessable but maybe a convenience store is. The largest counter-argument would involve the actual physical mating of the battery pack to the device, and the possibility of extra hardware on the board required to differentiate between receiving wall power and battery power from the external power source. This could possibly be solved by using a power connector with the possibility to physically distinguish between different plugs. Most laptop computers don't charge the onboard battery when receiving power in an airplane (yes they do!). Alternatively, use a software setting to turn off the internal charger.

[edit] Mic or Line In

mic is more convenient, but more difficult to isolate from noise, presumably external mic pre-amp would be easier to guarantee lower noise recordings

[edit] S/PDIF In

This is a connector issue, assuming we can use the combo 3.5MM line in and S/PDIF in, then there should be no issue with this.

[edit] Bluetooth

See discussion Here

[edit] Line Out

From Head-fi discussion

"I don't believe that it is truly a software fix, and I am not sure whether it requires a different output from the headphone out. A true line out means that simply that there is as little in the signal path as possible. After the D/A conversion, the signal goes straight to the output stage -- e.g., op-amp, tube output, transformer, etc. The gain is constant on the line-out and fed to an amp.

The key here is to have as little degradation of the signal as possible, and everything that gets in the way of the signal path degrades it in some way or another. In a DAP, that means bypassing the volume control and any eq. Simply shutting those components off is not enough, as they need to be completely transparent to the signal. That's why bypassing them is so important. The purer the signal going to the amp, the better (this is all assuming that the DAP's dac and output stage are of high enough quality to make them sound good). Whether you can really bypass those components and still use the same physical output by installing an internal switch is something that I don't know about.

The importance of the line-out is for those of us who will often times use the DAP either with an external headphone amp, or to feed a home system. I'm under no illusion that the DAP's sound quality will rival that of my home cd player, which is much bigger and considerably more costly, but the line-out ensures that I am getting the best signal possible sound out of the DAP when used with external amplification."

(It should be noted that in a DSP-based system, the EQ and possibly also the volume control happen in the DSP. Bypassing the EQ is as simple as turning it off in software.)

[edit] Under the Hood

[edit] General

The N3 will be driven by the TI DM320 Multimedia SOC with 200 MHz ARM926, 120 MHz C54x DSP.

The N3 will be based on the platform used in the 442 developer board. They will be quite similiar under the hood.

[edit] Firmware

Originally, it was thought that the N3 should run Linux, although recent discussions with Rockbox on porting their software to the N3 has re-opened the software discussion. It is also possible, we are told that the Rockbox software could run on top of Linux. For more information check OdNT, or see Neuros III and Open Source for details on Neuros Audio's commitment to an open audio platform.

[edit] PC Software

To be determined

[edit] Audio Quality

Here's what we have

• Burr Brown ADC-DAC capable of 24 bit audio at 96KHz
• a separate PLL to generate the sample rate clock
• S/PDIF (output yes, input- TBD)
• LINE-IN or Mic-in for recording (may or may not require an external mic pre-amp)

and "making sure that at least the hardware is ready to handle DVD-Audio quality in all its glory"

As you can see, It's really intended to be a high end portable audio player not a DAT recording replacement per se. High quality recording would require a very expensive preamp section, pricing the unit out of the portable player market. However, S/PDIF input would allow using an external a/d converter like the Core Sound Mic2496. So S/PDIF input would be an extremely important feature to the userbase currently recording with devices like the Nomad 3 Jukebox (which supports s/pdif input). The remaining possibility would be to use an external USB a/d converter and the 12 mbps host interface, but at 24/96 there might be a bottleneck.

You can read the logs of a recent discussion between Bob Faskos, the community and myself below

http://open.neurosaudio.com/files/neuros.09-09.log http://open.neurosaudio.com/files/neuros.09-10.log

discussion on Head-fi on the above is found here

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=136311